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The Soul of Wealth with Dr. Daniel Crosby



In this episode of The Resilient Advisor Show, Jay Coulter interviews Dr. Daniel Crosby, the Chief Behavioral Officer at Orion, discussing a wide array of topics from health to financial wisdom and his latest book, The Soul of Wealth. Dr. Crosby begins by sharing his health journey, which began as a support effort for a friend and evolved into a structured plan focused on mindfulness and protein intake. This journey helped him realize the impact of mindful eating and the pitfalls of mindless snacking.


Moving to financial wisdom, Dr. Crosby explores themes from The Soul of Wealth, emphasizing how wealth can provide fulfillment if used with intention. They discuss concepts like the top regrets of the dying, where he reflects on how focusing on the temporary nature of life can lead to more meaningful choices. Another major theme in his book is social isolation, worsened by social media’s “empty-calorie” interactions, which create a sense of connection without true closeness. Additionally, Dr. Crosby highlights how intentional spending—on experiences, relationships, or self-fulfillment—can lead to lasting happiness.


The episode concludes with Jay discussing how The Soul of Wealth can be used in financial advising, especially for clients who struggle with meaningful spending or transitioning to a decumulation phase. Dr. Crosby’s work is positioned as a resource to guide clients toward deeper fulfillment and intentional use of wealth. He recommends Amazon for purchasing his book, hoping it inspires readers to blend financial success with genuine life satisfaction.


Order your copy of The Soul of Wealth: Link


Transcript:


00:00

Would you like to learn how eating a Snickers bar every day could be part of your health transformation? What are the top five regrets of the dying? And what makes for a good financial plan? We're going to cover this and more with Dr. Daniel Crosby on this episode of The Resilient Advisor. This is The Resilient Advisor Show with Jay Colter.


00:24

Thanks for tuning into this episode. Joining me today is Dr. Daniel Crosby, who's the chief behavioral officer at Orion. He's also a fellow podcaster and author of several bestselling books, and now has a new book called The Soul of Wealth. Daniel, thanks for coming back on the podcast. Man, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me back. It's been too long, and let me tell you how long it's been. So the last time you came back on, we were talking about this book, The Behavioral Investor.


00:51

it is still dog tagged from all the research I did prior to that interview. And get this. So we're recording this in StreamYard. This will be a video, it will have clips and it will be audio. You called me on a telephone last time we recorded a podcast. We recorded on some very archaic technology. So technology has made podcasting so much easier today for sure. Yeah, no, thank thank goodness for that for guys like us, right? That's exactly right. So let's start before we get into the soul of wealth.


01:21

want to hear about your recent health transformation that you've been very vocal about on social media. And it's just it's fascinating to see how did it start? It started with a friend who was getting divorced. Funny enough, so I have a good buddy who I have worked out with for years. You know, I've been I've been religious about working out for for many years. But so my buddy was ending his marriage of 27 years.


01:48

and was sort of facing the prospect of having to get back on the market and was trying to get ship shape in preparation for getting back on the market. And so just wanting to be a friend, I said, hey, let me help you. We're already working out together. Let me be an accountability partner for you. He was paying good money to a personal trainer on a nutrition coach and I'm quite cheap and knew I wasn't going to do that. And so...


02:17

I was sort of drafting off of his plan and I just kinda got hooked. I mean, I just kinda got hooked, but that was the catalyst though, was my friend wanting to get his health in order, preparatory to dating. So there'll be a link in the show notes to your LinkedIn post about this transformation, but I'd love just to dig in a little bit. The first thing that you noted is that you're probably eating more than you think. What brought you to that realization?


02:47

Well, you know, the great thing about this whole thing has been money is such a natural analog for nutrition. And I've always been good with money and perhaps bad with food. But the thing that I started to do was start tracking my calories and start tracking my macros protein in particular. I had a goal to keep it simple. I knew it was gonna take simplicity for this to work. And so I wanted to be.


03:13

over a protein goal and under a calorie goal every day and that was kind of, and move my body and that was kind of the long and short of it. But when I started counting my calories, I was sort of shocked because if you had asked me if I ate healthily, I would have absolutely told you yes. I mean, I was, again, I mean, I was a seven day a week workout guy. I would...


03:38

You know, I'd run or walk for 30 minutes a day. I would lift weights for, you know, nearly an hour every day. And, but I was still overweight. And so I would have just said, Hey, I'm unlucky. I don't, I don't eat too much. Uh, this is just kind of the, the hand I was dealt. But when I started tracking my calories, I became aware of just how much mindless eating I was doing, you know, you're, you're making a sandwich for yourself. And then


04:04

eating all the things that go on the sandwich before you make the sandwich, you know, pouring yourself a bowl of cereal and eating, you know, two handfuls of cereal before you pour the milk on the cereal and sort of only counting the stuff that went in the bowl, not the two handfuls that went in before, you know, only counting the cheese that went on the sandwich, not the cheese that you ate while you were making the sandwich. And so, yeah, I just...


04:33

it was like there was a level of mindfulness that came along with it to say like, wow, like there's a lot of stress eating, mindless eating, sort of unconscious eating, that's not all that rewarding. You know, I mean, it doesn't sort of register as pleasurable in a way, because you're just doing it with so little intention. So yeah, that handful of crackers here, and like, again, none of it was crazy. I mean, it's like, you know.


05:01

couple teaspoons of hummus here, little cheese there, little crackers here, peanut butter there. It just, it all really adds up though. And I became aware of how often that was happening. You also talked in the post about your protein intake. And really this is something that I've been trying to pay attention to and I've struggled with. So how are you getting enough protein every day? Yeah, people will not love this. I mean, the answer is really.


05:28

Protein drinks are a huge supplement in there. So I have been, you know, my goal weight is 175, 180. I'm at 178 today. So I'm about, you know, where I want to be. But yeah, if sort of a healthy weight for me is 175 to 180, you know, most of the advice I was getting was eat one gram of protein per pound of ideal body weight. So, you know, 175 grams of protein a day.


05:58

is a ton. One thing that's worked well for me is Greek yogurt. You know, I wasn't aware of how good for you Greek yogurt is. Greek yogurt is chock full of protein, meat, of course, eggs. But then I've been having, you know, two, sometimes three of these Fair Life protein drinks a day, which are like 150 calories and 30 grams of protein. So,


06:25

from a macronutrient perspective, pretty gaudy, pretty great trade-off. And so yeah, like meat, you know, meat, eggs, yogurt, shrimp, and a protein drink or two, and you're there, but it takes intention for sure. And you know, the FDA would tell you to get, you know, 60 or 80 or something like that. So it's well sort of north of what most nutrient labels would tell you. And the reason is I didn't wanna be...


06:52

I didn't want to be scrawny, I didn't want to be skinny fat. I wanted to, you know, I've worked out for years, I wanted to maintain whatever gains I've, whatever modest gains I had, you know, accrued over that time. And protein is a good way to stay full and also to keep those gains. Yeah, Daniel, I've been having some of the same challenges and goals of trying to keep my protein intake up.


07:17

my own experience with it is I've always kept myself in really good shape. I'm pretty disciplined person. I'm perfectly healthy. Now most of my listeners know I got sick last year, got better. And instead of once the fact I was better, I didn't just continue on working out, I gave up. And I spent six months doing nothing. So I love your term skinny fat, and I never been fat in my life, but I was skinny fat. And so in order to then get myself back into shape, I did what I had always done.


07:45

was just go to the gym lift weights and do a little bit of cardio. And it wasn't getting it done. I didn't have enough protein, especially now that I'm 51 years old. And so I've had to pay attention to the protein. So every morning, it's eggs, a piece of chicken. Try and really lean into some of the supplements you're talking about, but it's hard. I don't travel nearly as much as you do. How do you keep up with the challenges of eating clean and getting the protein while you're traveling?


08:10

Yeah, it's not easy, but in some ways it's harder and in some ways it's easier. It's easier because you don't have that cupboard full of readily accessible food. I mean, you really have to kind of go get it, right? You know, so that's to my benefit. It's harder, but it's doable. I mean, I think most airports, most hotels now will have a protein drink. They'll have healthier snacks and...


08:37

You know, the more people like us sort of demand this, the more it will become the norm. But really, I have to plan out, really at the beginning of the morning, and this isn't fun, but it's what I do now, I get up and go, okay, what am I going to eat and when? And I really sort of begin with the end in mind, Stephen Covey style with my food, and I go, okay, you know, at 10 o'clock, I'm gonna have 100 calories with the ball men's, and like for dinner, I'm gonna have a steak and asparagus, and you know.


09:07

I'm traveling tomorrow and I'm coming home at dinner time, so when am I gonna eat before and after that? And never letting myself get too hungry either has been really good because I found, I mean, I eat more often and more volume now than I ever have in my life just because that's what's helping keep me full and not have it feel so bad. So really just planning out that day from the beginning of the day or even the day before.


09:37

and then just sticking with that. It's not fun. Doesn't make you fun at parties, but it'll help you in the gym though. Before we move on, you've got to tell us about your Snickers bar every night at eight o'clock. Did the nutrition tell you to do that? No, no, there's no nutritionist on earth who would I think tell you to do that. But you know, it's interesting to me. One of my big revelations throughout this whole thing.


10:04

is I think I've dabbled with different, dabbled in keto, dabbled in sort of carnivore, dabbled in low fat, of course, back in the whanivers, the 90s or whatever. And all of that just kind of left me feeling hungry. And I also just have a problem with authority, I think. I just don't like being told, I just don't like being told that something's off limits. And even from a psychological perspective,


10:33

we have a very strong pushback reaction to being told no. And you know, being told like, you can't eat any carbs or you can't eat any sweets is just not going to work for me. And so what I do is at the beginning of every day, I'm like, I don't like going to bed hungry. I don't like going to bed, I like sweets. And so...


11:02

I'm going to enter a Snickers bar that I eat usually about 8 or 8.30. And it's filling, it's sweet, it's a reward for having stuck with my plan the rest of the day. And I just make it fit, you know, I just make it fit. And it's really empowering to me to be able to eat every two or three hours, to be able to still eat a piece of bread or sweets, but just everything in moderation.


11:29

And you know, what I found is my sugar intake, even with the daily Snickers, my sugar intake is well below, you know, the national average is well below sort of the daily recommended, well below, certainly my historical norm, because I'm not getting all this sort of unconscious sugar with that handful of crackers and the handful of nuts and the handful of peanut butter, you know, just all that stuff throughout the day really adds up.


11:57

And that Snickers bar, I tell you, tastes like heaven because you plan for it, you save for it, and you expect it. And I really enjoy all four bites of that Snickers bar versus before where you're just sort of mindlessly tossing stuff back. So that's what I love about this. I think a well-constructed diet, there's nothing is off limits. Over the course of this, I'm gonna have lost 52 pounds in about six months.


12:26

And it's like I've had carrot cake and donuts and Snickers. I mean, but you know, the day you eat a 700 calorie piece of carrot cake, the rest of the day is rather lean. But like you can you can do it. You know, if you if you really want that carrot cake on Easter, and I did, you can do it, you can figure it out. Well, I appreciate just sharing your health transformation journey on social media, I'm starting to notice other folks that have platforms like you do doing


12:54

things like that. And really, it just becomes inspiration for people who are struggling because this is a challenge here in this country. For sure. Let's talk about the soul of wealth. I have a couple of the lessons that I'd love for you to share with the audience. But first, at a high level, what prompted you to write the soul of wealth? Yeah, so my my previous books had been more around sort of the blocking and tackling of investing and making good decisions behaviorally with your money. And I think the


13:22

The good news is a lot of folks are doing that. Like I think we have a better educated investing populace than we've had at any time in history, sort of a more empowered investing populace than at any point in history. And you even see in the data, people are the investor behavior gap is narrowing, people are making better decisions, people are more patient. I mean, look, we'll get it one of these days, we'll get a good bear market and the wheels will come off. But


13:50

You know, people are learning for sure, and they're creating wealth on the back of that good behavior. But what I observed is a lot of these folks who are hitting those financial goals still felt a little hollowed out. They still felt a little empty. There was a lack of meaning, purpose, happiness, contentment, whatever you wanna call it. And so it became clear to me that, you know,


14:18

that you can't live by bread alone. And even if you, you know, even if you get the rest of your financial life in order, there is still an existential spiritual psychological element to it that that needs addressing. One of the lessons that you talk about in the book goes around is around the subject of loneliness. I feel that there's an epidemic amongst teenagers, retirees, middle aged men, millennials, it's


14:47

prolific in this country, Daniel, what what is the role social media is playing in this epidemic? Yeah, it's a big role. So to kind of put a little bit of a finer point on on your excellent observation. In a lot of respects, things have never been better in this country. I mean, we've had high profile acts of violence here in Georgia very recently, that's sort of an ongoing tragedy in our country, which we should take very seriously and continue to address.


15:17

But writ large, it's never been a safer, there's never been a safer time in human history than right now. Never been a more prosperous time. And yet nobody seems to be very happy. When you look at Gen X and on down, in terms of generations, Gen X and younger, at least 51% of those generations, so most people say that they are lonely, that they are socially isolated.


15:46

And it gets in the low 70% when you get to, you know, the generation that's the age of like my oldest child, so teenagers. I can't remember what that generation is called now for the life of me, but maybe Gen Z maybe? Anyway, I think so. I think it's Gen Z. They're Zoomers. Yeah. So you've got between 50 and 73% of middle-aged to young people saying they're lonely. And this isn't a high-class problem.


16:16

When you look at the data around this, this isn't just first world problems or rich folks whining. The physical complications that come along with social isolation are incredibly bad. It's the equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes a day. It is twice as lethal as obesity in terms of its impacts on longevity. Like it's bad, bad, bad for you.


16:45

So what are the causes of this? I think the causes of this are myriad. I think part of it is the breakdown of a lot of what served as support structures. Historically, people trust government less, people trust institutions less, people are less religious. Like a lot of these sort of political, religious, and civic organizations that would have once been hubs for connection.


17:13

are now widely mistrusted, so I think that's a big piece of it. But I think social media, to your original question, I think social media also plays a big part. And there's a couple of things at play here. One is it gives people a false sense of what the world is like. Because the tendency on social media is to just play the hits. Like we play all of our accomplishments, right? I mean, look, I'll roast myself.


17:42

Like I posted about it on social media when I lost 50 pounds, but I did not post on it on social media for a decade and a half when I was overweight. Like, you know, no, but like that didn't, uh, that didn't make it to LinkedIn, right? That like, Hey, I had to get some new pants cause the old ones don't fit. And so, you know, I mean, this is just sort of how the world works, right? You get the, you get the 50 pound weight loss, but not the 50 pound weight gain.


18:12

and multiply that times a million other social interactions. And you and I are acutely aware of every insecurity, every screw up, every foible, every mistake. And meanwhile, we're seeing other people's greatest hits collection. And so we assume that other people have it more together and are more polished than they actually are. And there's a distance that


18:42

comes with that. The other thing is, I think a lot of the most damning and damaging parts of modern life are what I'll call counterfeits. So I think social media is by and large a counterfeit form of connection. It's empty calories to continue our theme here. It has the look, taste, smell, feel of social connection.


19:10

without any of the substance. And so, you know, it feels like you're connecting with people when you send them, you know, a hundred Snapchats a day of you vomiting a rainbow or something, but it doesn't, you know, it doesn't have the same, it doesn't gratify or sate our needs for connection at the same level as a more fundamental human connection would. Yeah, I gotta tell you, Daniel, as somebody who has a...


19:39

decent social media footprint, I can tell you that as that grew, I felt less connected to my own personal network, because everything you just laid out, I wasn't picking up the phone and calling people as much as I used to because I felt like I was connected. And I just wasn't because it was all done through social media. I think social media can be a catalyst for in person connection, right? Like there are some very real and very rich relationships I enjoy in real life that have been started on social media.


20:08

But we have to take it off the page, right? We have to take it off the screen for it to get good. Yeah, and be very deliberate about it, which admittedly, I've lacked doing that myself some. Alright, next lesson, I'm going to try and move along quickly here because there's so many great things to talk about in this book. And we only have a little bit of time. Something that stood out to me is the concept of talking about the top five regrets of the dying. Daniel, what do folks need to know about what people who are dying regret? So


20:38

I have, if we look at every faith tradition, every wisdom tradition through time, stoicism gets a lot of play, I think, right now because of the impact of Ryan Holiday and others. And I've got my little, you know, memento mori bracelet on here that I look at every day. But in every sort of wisdom tradition throughout time, there's been this learning that, you know,


21:04

by focusing on the finitude, by focusing on the fact that tomorrow is not promised, that life is not forever, that can actually be a real source of energy. And I mean, your own story, right? Your own health scare and your own story, I think, is evidence of that. But there was a work done by this Australian palliative care nurse in Brawny Ware, and she talks about the top five regrets of the dying.


21:34

And what's fascinating is how disconnected they are from what we spend most of our lives worrying about. Like if you did a pie chart of where you spend your day, it would be, you know, a lot of work, like a lot of worrying about money and a lot of worrying about work if yours looks very much like mine, and I think most folks do. And look, there's some real lifeness to that. There's some...


22:03

you know, veracity to that focus because life is expensive and increasingly so. But when people are dying, right, and they're looking back on their lives with 2020 hindsight, work only comes up once. And it's I wish I had worked less. You know? And so I think there's wisdom and


22:28

You know, I used to be a psychotherapist and in the psychotherapeutic literature, there's something known as an existential boundary experience. And it's these moments where the reality of death is very close. I was sitting in this room when my wife came down. I was pulling my hair out over an Excel spreadsheet that I was very angry at. Right. And I couldn't get this model to work for work. And I was very frustrated about it.


22:56

And my wife came through that door right there and told me that my sister-in-law was going to die. My sister-in-law who had had cancer was now incurable and on the verge of death. And in that moment, in that existential boundary experience, that Excel spreadsheet felt very small, right? Like that spreadsheet felt very insignificant. And we need to have those moments and sort of...


23:24

rent those moments by reading the works of someone like Ronnie Ware, before it's too late, like before we get our own diagnosis. So I think there's a ton of wisdom in contemplating the end of life and living today as if tomorrow isn't guaranteed because it's not. You know, Daniel, one thing I experienced is I didn't, I thought I was heading down a bad road. It did not look great at all. I got to the other side.


23:54

course, I'm perfectly healthy today and I'm very blessed. After I got healthy, I was encouraged by some folks to share my stories. So maybe it could be inspirational to somebody else who's struggling. I did in it, I talked about some of the lessons I've learned. So that was over just over a year ago. This morning, I was so mad at one note, you mentioned Excel, because I couldn't get one note to do what I wanted to do in prepping for this podcast. The number of things that I've gotten upset about over the previous six months.


24:23

A year ago, I would have said, I'll never get mad at that stuff again. What happens when you have like, why does that happen? How can somebody go through an experience where they go, okay, this is it. The game ended sooner than I thought. Oh, I got to get out of jail card free. And then I'm right back to where I was. Well, life, you know, we're we're wired for immediacy. And we're wired to, I mean, we're wired for immediacy. We're wired for right now. And we're wired for instant gratification.


24:51

Well, and instant anger too. But we're wired to be way too locked in on the pleasure or the grievance of a moment in that moment and not to think long term. So I think it takes a constant reminder. I mean, again, my daughter made me this bracelet and it's just a simple little Memento Mori thing and it's a small thing, but I look at it every day and go, you know, hey, this isn't forever.


25:19

Like, am I putting first things first? And it's an imperfect process, but we cannot let ourselves just live an 80-year existence mired in the smallness of every passing moment. We've got to consider the bigger picture to step back from time to time, consider what truly matters, and try and make sure that we're at least, you know.


25:47

steering our rudder in that direction and understanding that that's a constant process of reassessment and reevaluation. So what I'm hearing from you, the key is to be intentional about remembering. Yeah. Yeah. Constant, right? Yeah, because the little stuff will the little stuff will take over. The next lesson. What makes for a good financial plan? So


26:15

There's many things that make for a good financial plan and there's certainly people who are better equipped to talk about some of the blocking and tackling of a good financial plan than me. But I'll talk about one of the things that I see that's missing most commonly that has a strong psychological tie. And it's a goal with some salience. So.


26:39

Salience is the psychological term for sort of like the vividness or emotion that something engenders. And I think we have a lot of soulless, gutless goals. You know, if you ask the average passerby, you know, Jane or John Doe, hey, like, what are your financial goals? You're going to get some very like neutered ideas. You're going to get a lot of round numbers like, I want a million


27:08

$5 million that are really sort of divorced from any sort of real financial planning, right? It's just sort of a round number. You're going to get a lot of I want more, you know, like, what do you want? Like more than I have today, right? A lot of sort of hedonic treadmill moving goalpost stuff. And you're going to get a lot of mimicry. You're going to get a lot of mimesis of people saying, well, you know, my brother-in-law just bought a boat. So


27:38

you know, I want a boat now. And if left to our own devices, we can take those things that face value, planners, you know, planners and advisors can take those things that face value and assume that people are accurately reporting their desires. A good financial planner is going to understand this tendency in people to sort of engage in these very surface-y goals.


28:07

and understand that they don't have the power to motivate. Throughout the book, throughout a number of chapters, I give some really compelling stats on how making a goal personal, vivid, personally meaningful, like really deep and dug down has an almost science fiction like ability to increase good behavior. I mean, the stats are almost mind boggling.


28:35

You know, people are 10 times less likely to go to cash when their goal is vivid in a bear market. They're two and a half times as likely to save aggressively. One study found that they were 72% more likely to save. I mean, it's just like, it just goes on and on this seemingly simple process of helping people pick a goal that's not just the first thing that comes to their head, but something they're deeply passionate about and which they can envision.


29:04

in a really vivid way is such a powerful and overlooked thing. So Daniel, in your new book, The Soul of Wealth, you talk about the construct of money being able to buy happiness. Tell us about that. That's one of the most complicated chapters. And even the even the chapter itself, I'm going to mess it up. But it's it's something like money can kind of sort of buy happiness sometimes. You know, if we


29:32

If we look at the research around money and happiness, there's been a lot of progress, right? There's been a lot of progress, but there's a lot of nuance. I think a lot of people were familiar with the Kahneman and Deaton study about $75,000, right? Like everyone loves to quote that, you know, after $75,000, your happiness sort of plateaus. And there were people that pushed back on that. And, you know, Daniel Kahneman to his...


30:01

everlasting credit was a consummate professional in it, in someone who did not, you know, did not back down from challenges to his thinking. And he was like, well, let's do it. Like, let's look at this. And so they found a couple of things. The first thing that they found is that it matters how you measure happiness. You know, one way that they measure happiness is they'll say, hey, here's a beeper.


30:27

You know, like think about to your drug dealing days in the 80s and 90s now. Think back, you know, a pager, right? To think someone with a pager that basically has emojis on it from, you know, very sad to very happy. And they just ping you at different times of the day and they say, hey, how are you doing along, you know, these five or seven emojis? And you weigh in. And what they found there is in that means of measuring


30:56

which is a pretty rudimentary, like a pretty basic means of measuring happiness, that yes, indeed, money does increase happiness up to a point, it would probably be about a hundred thousand dollars today. And then it kind of plateaus. Because what that is measuring is maybe not so much happiness as sort of moment to moment comfort. And sure enough, people who don't have money


31:25

are sort of miserable moment to moment. They did their cold, their hot, they don't have enough to eat, they're worried, their kid goes to an unsafe school, whatever. Moment to moment measuring happiness like that, yes. Happiness does kind of plateau after what we would call maybe middle class, upper middle class income. Measured another way though, money basically.


31:51

buys happiness up to over half a million dollars a year. If they say, hey, sort of self appraisal, think more of a qualitative self appraisal, hey Daniel, how's your life? And I sort of write, hey, how you doing? That buys happiness up to half a million dollars a year, which is where they stopped. So we could even hypothesize that it would go north of there. So that's a different way of measuring happiness that gets a different result.


32:21

The other thing we find is that it matters how you spend it. There are certain ways that you can spend money that do buy happiness. Newness, like novelty buys happiness. So, you know, have you ever been to Japan? I have, we went this summer with the family. Okay, I have not been, so I want your travel tips, right? So I am dying to go to Japan. And part of it is,


32:49

new language, new people, new food, new sights, new sounds, new smells. That buys happiness because it kind of breaks us out of our trance-like state that we get in with our day-to-day routine. That novelty buys happiness. Time spent with people you love buys happiness. Getting out of stuff you hate buys happiness. I have not mowed my yard in over a decade.


33:17

and knock on wood that we can keep that going if people buy the book, right? So, I have not mowed my yard in a very long time because I hate it. Like I live in Georgia, it's hot, it's nasty. I don't wanna do it. I'll clean a bathroom, I'll clean, I'll vacuum, I'll fold clothes, I do not wanna mow my yard. And that buys me happiness. The last thing we see, oh, excuse me, one more, giving it away.


33:44

very consistently buys happiness. Being charitable, being philanthropic consistently buys happiness. And then the last thing that's a little bit of a new finding is spending money in ways that are consistent with you being the kind of person you want to be. To sort of in furtherance of your personality buys happiness. You can't see it here, but I have a wall full of expensive guitars right here. And I'm like.


34:13

I'm like extremely intermediate in terms of my skill, right? Like, but I want to be a guitar god, I want to be a guitar hero. And so, you know, buying these nice guitars and playing them and practicing them and showing them off is consistent with the kind of man I want to be. Found that people who buy fancy cars, that doesn't buy happiness.


34:41

But people who buy fancy cars to be part of a cars and coffee like auto club with their old man pals that does buy happiness. And so if the thing you're buying furthers connection, if it makes you more of who you want to be, then that can buy happiness. So is that is that complicated enough for you? Nice, great. That's the first section I'm going to go to when when my copy of the book arrives. So let's wrap with this.


35:10

You know, when we did our podcast on the behavioral investor, there were so many great frameworks in there that I was able to take to advisors and their practices to help implement. One of them in particular was the RBI approach to investing, rules-based behavioral investing. How could financial advisors use the soul of wealth in their practice? This is going to be a book that we've already started to see this from folks who got their hands on early copies at some Orion events.


35:39

This is going to be a book that a lot of advisors are going to gift to their clients to try and get them on the same page with money and meaning. You know, I think one of the thorniest problems that advisors run into is clients who are such good savers and such good accumulators that they then have trouble flipping the switch when it's time to decumulate or to be charitable.


36:07

or to do something nice for a grand kid or to take that big trip they've been saving for. People can kind of get stuck in that saving investing mode. And I think this is a book that's going to help advisors have those conversations. And across the 50 chapters in this book, each one of them starts with an anecdote, which I think can be sort of a powerful hook. Then it gives sort of the science behind it. And then it gives application.


36:36

And I think that's how advisors are going to use this like, hey, read this one chapter, and let's discuss this at our next meeting. And let's discuss how you can not just be the one who dies with the most toys, but how you can, you know, spend this money in a way that really brings you some fulfillment. Daniel, I can already see the applications, especially for folks doing real financial planning work. They can go through the book and find the issues that their clients are struggling with dog tag it, send it to them for their next meeting.


37:06

So, excellent. Congratulations on the new book launch. Where could people go pick up their own copy of the Soul of Wealth? Yeah, go put some money in Jeff Bezos' pocket. Go to Amazon, grab the book. I mean, it's everywhere, but Amazon's usually the fastest and the easiest. So, go grab a copy of the Soul of Wealth on Amazon. Appreciate you having me on to help kick this off. It's a real honor, and thank you. Thank you for making this happen. My pleasure. Enjoyed having you. Thanks, Daniel.

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